Carol BurnettandDebra Messingwere supposed to have a date.
But COVID-19 reared its ugly head, forcing them, like so many things, to postpone.
“I was so heartbroken.
Credit: Jon Kopaloff/Getty Images (2)
I was like,noooooo!”
says theWill & Gracestar with a laugh.
Factory TVplatforms, includingAmazon Prime VideoandRoku her own comedy inspirations, and female friends in the biz.
CBS Photo Archive/Courtesy of Getty Images
Read on for a condensed version of their conversation.
DEBRA MESSING:I am so excited to talk to you.
I am beside myself.
Everett Collection
[Laughs] I am so excited to talk to you!
My parents watched your show religiously when I was a little girl.
I grew up in Rhode Island in the woods, on four acres of land in evergreens.
The nearest gas station was eight miles away, our driveway was a quarter of a mile long.
Seeing you all break and laugh at each other was the highlight.
It just felt like we were watching a bunch of friends playing together.
CAROL BURNETT:Aw.
MESSING:You were the first woman in history to headline a musical comedy sketch show on television.
Were you aware of how history-making your show was when you began?
BURNETT:Not at all.
[Laughs]
MESSING:Oh my God!
How old were you?
BURNETT:I was 33.
MESSING:Oh my God.
CBS will never make that deal ever again!
[Laughs]
BURNETT:[Laughs] It was unbelievable!
And they said, “Well, you know, Carol, comedy/variety is a man’s game.”
BURNETT:[Laughs] There was Sid Caesar and Jackie Gleason and Milton Berle.
And then it was Dean Martin.
And they said I remember this they said, It’s not for yougals.
MESSING:Oh my gosh.
It didn’t upset me.
Then they said they wanted me to do a sitcom Ill never forget it calledHeres Agnes.
Can you picture it?
I want to have a [repertory] company like Sid Caesar and Jackie Gleason had.
I want guest stars.
I want singing, dancing.
The whole nine yards.
We can’t predict anything, but let’s just go out there and have a ball.
We debuted oppositeI SpyandThe Big Valley, which were pretty big shows.
That was really something because back then there were no VCRs or TiVo or anything like that.
MESSING:So what came first?
Did the creation of the character come first?
The site gag ideas?
Did they come from improv?
I would go to the movies with her and with my best friend from school.
Then we’d come home and we’d play out the movies that we’d see.
And same thing withGone With the Wind,Double Indemnity, and all of those.
As far as other things, Tim Conway created Mr. Tudball and Mrs. Wiggins.
Let’s make her into this blonde bimbo whom the IQ Fairy never visited.
And I said, Bob, I’m flat back there.
You’re gonna have to take it in.
And he said, No, stick your butt into it.
And I did and thats how her walk was created.
And Bob had this great sense of humor.
He was like, Thats not as funny as it can be.
MESSING:[Laughs] Of all time.
That [dress] is in The Smithsonian.
MESSING:Your first Emmy Award was forThe Garry Moore Show, right?
MESSING:What was that night like for you when they called your name?
BURNETT:Oh my!
[Laughs] It was surreal.
I didn’t expect it.
I really didn’t.
I think it was for Variety Performance, so it included men and women.
MESSING:Oh my God!
[Laughs]
BURNETT:So I did not expect it.
It was a very pleasant shock, I have to say.
MESSING:My other favorites were Eunice and Mama playing the board game Sorry!
that always made me cry.
I could go on and on.
What were your favorite characters to play?
BURNETT:I think Eunice and the movie [spoofs].
Wiggins, I loved doing her.
And so I realized, as Mrs. Wiggins I can’t laugh because she’s so stupid.
How long after the show wrapped did you feel you were ready and hungry to do comedy again?
BURNETT:I never thought I wouldn’t.
It was just kind of surprising that I got theFriendly Firescript.
Comedy is my first love.
I enjoyed doingFriendly Fire, so don’t get me wrong:Youcan do comedy.
We’ve all got it in us.
It’s just, we need to get the offers.
But I just like the feedback of a live audience.
Making movies… it depends.
I had a great time working for [Robert] Altman.
I just felt like I was doing my show again, because he would encourage us to improvise.
We were doing the movie calledA Wedding.
I want to hear it.
Some of my best ideas have come from actors.
Did you ever hear of a director saying that?
Who were your idols?
BURNETT:Oh wow.
And a beautiful actress called Linda Darnell.
She was from Texas.
Yeah, she was beautiful.
I think I was 9 years old.
She came walking by and my grandmother, who was not shy [laughs], says, Linda!
This girl just loves you.
Give her your autograph!
She did and she was so sweet.
MESSING:Who did you think was funny?
BURNETT:I loved Abbott and Costello.
And I thought Danny Kaye was funny in his movies.
And I love the way he could do all the singing with a double-talk and all that.
Mostly I was in love with the musicals, and anything Jimmy Stewart was in.
She called me “kid” because she was 22 years older than I.
And she would say, Kid, if you ever need me for anything, call me.
Don’t hesitate to call me.
So the producer said, You should call Lucy.
And I was like, Ohhh, I don’t want to bother her.
And I was blubbering.
I, uh, I, I dont want to bother you.
Im doing this special… And she said, Wait a minute.
When do you want me?
So,she did the special with me, and we became very close friends.
She gave me a baby shower for my second daughter, but it was the funniest baby shower ever.
It was just hysterical.
MESSING:You also did a special with Julie Andrews, right?
BURNETT:Oh, I did three.
MESSING:How did you meet?
BURNETT:A friend of hers knew me also.
He was an agent, and he said, You two guys have to meet each other.
There’s something about the two of you.
And also the producer of Garrys show was with us.
So the two men were sitting there, and Julie and I never shut up.
We just kept talking.
It was like we knew each other from the get-go.
BURNETT:Yeah, it was just unheard of.
And so then the idea came that we should do a special together at Carnegie Hall.
But nobody wanted it.
CBS didn’t want it.
They said, Nobody knows who Julia Andrews is west of New York.
Maybe Julie and I should go to NBC because they have color now.
I said, I’ll be fine.
Somebody’s going to come by and offer me a ride.
I was so bold.
And they helped me up into the cab of the beer truck.The guy took me home.
I had an apartment on Central Park South.
MESSING:Obviously, you’re considered a trailblazer with your TV show.
That was very funny, funny, funny.
All of you werebrilliantlyfunny.
And that appealed to me more than stand-up.
I can admire stand-up, but that’s notmything.
So I’m always more interested in how people who are in a scene together are funny.
When I was getting my start it was Lucy and Imogene Coca.
All those sketch performers.
And also, it’s wonderful that they have their own production companies.
Lucy had one and she was a trailblazer in that instance.
And now there are so many of them.
Even people like Reese Witherspoon and Nicole Kidman have these larger production companies and I think it’s great.
So there area lotof women.
Well, you’re among them, Debra.
You’re born with it.
BURNETT:Right, absolutely.
MESSING:And it wasn’t just that show.
I mean, Miss Hannigan in the film version ofAnnie, I played Annie in high school.
MESSING:Yes, so when that movie came out, that was my favorite movie.
I just played it over and over and over again.
You’re brilliant and youre an incredible role model for millions and millions.
We just wanted to laugh.
I dare anybody to watch Tim and Harvey do the dentist and not lose it.
And that’s over 40 years old.
I think the only way you might tell it was done a long time ago is by the clothes.
But you look atGone With the Wind, that’s a period piece, so that holds up.
That’ll always hold up.
BURNETT:Focus on the fact that we were having so much fun.
