In the Venn diagram of modern pop, all circles seem to overlap with Jack Antonoff.

“And some people make really good work from a cynical place!

It’s just not something that I can do.")

Taylor Swift, Jack Antonoff, and Aaron Dessner accept the Album of the Year

Folk, yeah: Taylor Swift, Jack Antonoff, and coproducer Aaron Dessner accept their Album of the Year trophy for ‘Folklore’ at the 2021 Grammy Awards.Kevin Winter/Getty Images

Everyone’s out doing s— on a Saturday night, and I’m home writing songs.”

But getting Springsteen on tape, Antonoff swears, “was an incredibly organic experience.

There’s a reason why she’s at the stage she is.

Jack Antonoff and Bruce Springsteen

Antonoff tapped Bruce Springsteen for Bleachers' single ‘Chinatown’.

It’s because of a gut feeling she follows, and she followed it with me.

And then Taylor said, ‘You’rethe producer,’ and after that, people don’t question it.”

But I also don’t work with people who aren’t brilliant and who aren’t producers themselves.